[00:05:01] <^alex> we put 2 annotations on yr paste :)
[00:06:05] <^alex> oops, the second one needs a <request-message> before the ;
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[00:32:26] <^alex> when dealing with json we've also had good luck using `deep-at`, `values-of` and `map>assoc` in extractor/validator/parser-type functions
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[01:18:09] <^alex> one of those is in assocs.extras
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[06:13:11] <itmuckel> whoa, ^alex, thank you so much!
[06:17:51] <itmuckel> Using "at" annoyed me a lot, because I never had the situation that the key was on the stack and I wanted to provide a hashtable next. of has the natural order. H{ { "key" "val" } } "key" of. really nice!
[06:24:44] <itmuckel> I spent some time decyphering your last variant without repeating of: "id" "method" "params" [ [ of ] curry ] tri@ tri ;
[06:26:28] <itmuckel> Very elegant, but I think I prefer the previous version with [ "id" of ] [ "method" of ] [ "params" of ] tri
[06:29:10] <itmuckel> Also because I don't think the simple case of "offing" all keys will happen often. Either way I learned very useful words through your annotations. :thumbs_up: (tri@, of, curry)
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[07:12:19] <doublec> bmps: great to see you too!
[07:15:46] <doublec> bitmapper: yes, it's a difficult problem
[07:30:02] <itmuckel> why port shen to factor?
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[07:33:56] <itmuckel> Also in what way? So that factor can interpret shen code?
[07:34:07] <doublec> itmuckel: Shen is a language designed to have multiple 'ports' in backend languages. So there are Shen ports for Common Lisp, JavaScript, C, etc.
[07:34:53] <doublec> itmuckel: Shen compiles to a Lisp variant called K-Lambda. Most ports are K-Lambda interpreters, or compile K-Lambda to the native code of the port (Lisp, etc).
[07:35:21] <doublec> itmuckel: Factor makes a great backend for a language implementation with good performance due to the JIT.
[07:35:35] <doublec> itmuckel: See the Smalltalk example in the Factor source
[07:36:26] <doublec> The Self programming language system has a Java->Self compiler example. You can load and execute Java classes in the Self environment. It'd be neat to do an example like that in Factor.
[07:39:07] <doublec> itmuckel: this is a bit about the Smalltalk in Factor https://factor-language.blogspot.com/2009/04/sup-dawg-we-heard-you-like-smalltalk-so.html
[07:40:52] <doublec> itmuckel: this is the Smalltalk parser https://github.com/factor/factor/blob/master/extra/smalltalk/parser/parser.factor
[08:16:29] <itmuckel> god, the ebnf parser is incredibly awesome :D
[08:22:56] <doublec> itmuckel: here's a bit about the ebnf parser https://bluishcoder.co.nz/2008/04/04/factor-parsing-dsl.html
[08:24:37] <doublec> bitmapper: I wonder if the way the ebnf parser compiles to locals can help with your shen port. It's mentioned in that post above.
[08:25:54] <itmuckel> doublec: So the goal is to have Shen compile to Factor, so the Factor compiler can use its optimization techniques to make the Shen code run faster?
[08:27:13] <doublec> itmuckel: I think bitmapper's goal is to have a Shen implementation that runs fast due to Factor's JIT'd VM, and have access to all factor's libraries, GUI, etc.
[08:33:19] <itmuckel> doublec: nice
[08:35:44] <itmuckel> Anyone of you using a 4k display? Any ideas how to tune the factor tools (listener, browser etc.) to look fine on that size? 
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[08:55:01] <itmuckel> Maybe once I'm comfortable with factor, I can look through the source of the UI tools :)
[09:34:06] <itmuckel> Is there a way to do hot-reload in factor? Like calling "refresh-all" automatically, when file changes have been detected?
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[10:55:26] <itmuckel> bmps: The shutdown request works. lol.
[11:00:23] <itmuckel> bmps: The initialization request is much more sophisticated: https://microsoft.github.io/language-server-protocol/specifications/specification-current/#initialize Here I really need to dig deeper. If I get stuck I'll notify you, but now I should use the weekend to relax my mind a bit. ;)
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[11:39:50] <doublec> itmuckel: you can probably hook into this to call refresh-all https://docs.factorcode.org/content/article-io.monitors.html
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[14:54:28] <^alex> iirc there is an auto-reload mode
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[17:31:54] <^alex> itmuckel, tasteful use of curry and bi/tri are, imo, key elements of idiomatic Factor
[17:37:39] <^alex> very rarely do we use locals in our personal code: http://sprunge.us/lfLm0J?factor f.ex
[17:42:48] <bitmapper> what is the retain stack?
[17:43:54] <^alex> aiui it's one of the 5 stacks in a continuation
[17:44:06] <^alex> data, call, retain, name, and catch
[17:44:17] <^alex> iirc older forths just had the data and retain stacks
[17:44:52] <^alex> and the retain stack held calls in addition to things put there with `r>` 
[17:53:21] <bitmapper> i'm trying to compile to shen to factor, and i'm not sure how to deal with lexical scope
[17:53:26] <bitmapper> i'd like to not use locals
[18:18:58] <^alex> ah
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[20:30:38] <bitmapper> is it possible to get the nth item on the stack?
[20:32:57] <^alex> look into the generalized shuffle words
[20:33:01] <^alex> `npick`
[20:35:57] <^alex> or, possibly, the smart combinators
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