[00:54:30] * ColonelJ [ColonelJ!~ColonelJ@unaffiliated/colonelj] has quit (Quit: leaving). [00:56:01] * AidanBaidicoot [AidanBaidicoot!~AidanBaid@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined the channel. [00:57:49] * proteusguy [proteusguy!~proteusgu@cm-58-10-208-180.revip7.asianet.co.th] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). [01:09:22] * bitmapper [bitmapper!~bitmapper@142.162.167.202] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). [01:11:30] * proteusguy [proteusguy!~proteusgu@cm-58-10-208-180.revip7.asianet.co.th] has joined the channel. [04:06:47] * AidanBaidicoot [AidanBaidicoot!~AidanBaid@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). [06:56:41] * AidanBaidicoot [AidanBaidicoot!~AidanBaid@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined the channel. [06:56:49] * xelxebar [xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). [06:57:21] * xelxebar [xelxebar!~xelxebar@gateway/tor-sasl/xelxebar] has joined the channel. [07:04:44] * nitrix [nitrix!~nitrix@haskell/developer/nitrix] has quit (Quit: ZNC 1.8.1 - https://znc.in). [07:48:34] * AidanBaidicoot [AidanBaidicoot!~AidanBaid@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). [09:06:36] * carvite [carvite!~carvite@unaffiliated/stryx/x-3871776] has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). [09:20:00] * carvite [carvite!~carvite@unaffiliated/stryx/x-3871776] has joined the channel. [09:21:52] * nitrix [nitrix!~nitrix@haskell/developer/nitrix] has joined the channel. [10:36:39] * tgunr [tgunr!~davec@dsl-dhcp-conrtxxahre-72-26-18-39.consolidated.net] has joined the channel. [10:40:33] * andyt [andyt!~andyt@alligin.plus.com] has joined the channel. [11:19:04] * tgunr [tgunr!~davec@dsl-dhcp-conrtxxahre-72-26-18-39.consolidated.net] has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). [11:26:16] * AidanBaidicoot [AidanBaidicoot!~AidanBaid@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined the channel. [11:36:44] * AidanBaidicoot [AidanBaidicoot!~AidanBaid@cpc85742-newc19-2-0-cust179.16-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). [11:45:23] * ColonelJ [ColonelJ!~ColonelJ@unaffiliated/colonelj] has joined the channel. [14:51:31] * bitmapper [bitmapper!~bitmapper@142.162.167.202] has joined the channel. [15:39:28] I have a Windows system to work with, but itmuckel is not here, so I'll try to poke tomorrow. [16:13:26] hello hello [16:45:37] Greetings duncanm [16:48:49] bmps: ah, i've been reading your blog for quite a while now, i didn't know you're into Factor [16:48:49] I've been writing my own PostScript implementation, so that's what brings me to #concatenative [16:52:08] I've been doing Factor since very roughly 2004 or 2005. [16:52:16] Just...never very steadily. [16:52:32] I *think* I even have commit rights still on Factor, although I haven't used them in a few years. [16:52:56] Are you focused on PostScript as a language proper, or you're doing your own rasterizer and that's a component? [16:53:12] Or something else? Multithreaded Display PostScript? :-D [17:54:04] r/chapotraphouse was banned. is hate speech against nazis really equal to hate speech from nazis? [18:01:24] * itmuckel [itmuckel!~itmuckel@mue-88-130-56-164.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined the channel. [18:02:12] bmps: You can poke around asynchronously on Windows without me :D [18:02:45] (I'm reading the logs, so no mention gets lost, a bit tedious, but hey) [18:15:08] erg: Context? [18:15:35] (And: no, I'm very pro-free-speech and so on, but I'm perfectly find advocating punching Nazis) [18:15:39] *fine [18:34:08] doublec: i'm surprised you never wrote a CPM emulator to go with the 8080 emulator [18:54:51] bmps: just the biggest leftist sub on reddit was banned, r/chapotraphouse [18:55:10] the site is shit now [18:56:51] itmuckel: what are you debugging? the vscode language server? i meant to try that [19:06:49] erg: yeah, the problem is that it's not picking up anything from vscode on Windows (on Linux it does) [19:14:34] * itmuckel [itmuckel!~itmuckel@mue-88-130-56-164.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). [19:28:52] * itmuckel [itmuckel!~itmuckel@mue-88-130-56-164.dsl.tropolys.de] has joined the channel. [20:02:22] * ephe_meral [ephe_meral!~amnesia@2a02:8109:8880:2004:9679:ffd7:9736:b625] has joined the channel. [20:15:49] * ephe_meral [ephe_meral!~amnesia@2a02:8109:8880:2004:9679:ffd7:9736:b625] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). [20:47:44] * ephe_meral [ephe_meral!~amnesia@2a02:8109:8880:2004:9679:ffd7:9736:b625] has joined the channel. [20:55:37] * itmuckel [itmuckel!~itmuckel@mue-88-130-56-164.dsl.tropolys.de] has quit. [21:01:39] bmps: hey hey, sorry i didn't see your messages earlier [21:02:15] bmp: I find PS as a language pretty interesting, and yeah, I'm trying to do multithreaded PS a la NeWS [21:02:24] bmps: oops [21:02:28] It's fine. [21:02:38] I'm in the middle of a last name change and IRC is a leading indicator; I alert on both. You're good. :) [21:02:52] bmps: the language and LWP part is actually done, I got stuck working on Canvas, so I'm taking a break [21:03:06] I wrote my PS impl in Dart and I'm doing the graphics in Flutter [21:03:13] I didn't think NeWS was multithreaded, for whatever reason. [21:03:27] I thought even DPS only kinda sorta wasa. [21:03:30] s/wasa/was [21:03:32] NeWS has this { .... } fork [21:03:32] But it's seriously been forever. [21:03:37] DPS is kinda a subset of NeWS [21:03:55] one thing that I wanna study is how Factor does multimethods [21:04:01] I have never actually been able to try NeWS. I have no idea how to get a copy without owning Solaris hardware. [21:04:13] Yeah, I have it running inside qemu [21:04:31] Our multimethod implementation is so slow I've never used it in anything but anger. [21:04:32] and I did buy a old Sun laptop, but I haven't had time to figure out how to get it to work [21:04:36] Ohhh [21:04:39] Wait. They made SPARC laptops? [21:04:55] http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/32324/Tadpole-SPARCbook-3/ [21:05:08] I think I got a SparcBook 2 from ebay [21:05:21] it boots up but the owner doesn't know the root password [21:05:39] I mean, to be clear, it may have gotten better; for shits and giggles, I wrote a Copilot Reflector back at Fog Creek around 2006 or 7 in Factor. It actually performed better than .NET 1.0 at the time, I think because the .NET implementation I used did actual threads, whereas Factor was doing what amounted to evented I/O, but it was pretty cool. [21:05:54] i was gonna bring it to a friend who has the setup to deal with old computers in Seattle, but with the virus going, I'm not doing any traveling this year, most likely [21:05:56] But I had initially planned to do multimethods for part of it, and it was just...awful. It was clearly doing double dict lookups per method invocation. [21:06:10] I would be extremely unsurprised if it's way better now, but that kind of warned me off it. [21:06:15] Ahhh [21:06:37] Yeah, I spent some time studying the MOP book, the history of how generic functions come to be is interesting [21:06:43] And "slow" on a 2005 PowerMac G5 may be very different than "slow" on a Ryzen in 2020. [21:06:50] * ephe_meral [ephe_meral!~amnesia@2a02:8109:8880:2004:9679:ffd7:9736:b625] has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). [21:07:05] it feels like there's something to be done about it in PostScript, cuz the language has multimethods [21:07:20] just like Lisp had them, but only for numbers before generic functions [21:07:48] `get`, `getinterval`, `put`, etc - these are generic for arrays and strings [21:08:10] `length` is the classic one [21:08:46] the thing that i can't figure out is what to say about method dispatch and arity [21:09:45] I think Factor is different from PostScript in that the functions know their own arity [21:10:35] in PostScript, executable arrays don't say anything about how much they take in from the stack [21:10:59] * ephe_meral [ephe_meral!~amnesia@2a02:8109:8880:2004:9679:ffd7:9736:b625] has joined the channel. [21:14:07] duncanm: julia supposedly has a great multimethod implementation [21:14:28] yeah, but their functions look like foo(a, b, c) too [21:15:23] i don't think Julia has CALL-NEXT-METHOD, which is kinda surprising [21:16:42] here's factor's implementation. it's not fast: https://github.com/factor/factor/blob/master/extra/multi-methods/multi-methods.factor [21:29:37] * ephe_meral [ephe_meral!~amnesia@2a02:8109:8880:2004:9679:ffd7:9736:b625] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). [21:33:05] bitmapper: Something I never got around too sadly. I wanted to do a disassembler, stepper, etc as well. [21:33:14] :( [21:38:49] erg: i wonder how CL implementations do it [21:39:40] http://metamodular.com/SICL/generic-dispatch.pdf [21:51:51] doublec: hey! what's the cool lanauges you're into lately? [22:14:13] duncanm: the art of the metaobject protocol [22:14:41] yeah, i know the MOP book [22:14:56] + take a look into mit scheme's SOS [22:16:57] erg: I've been using Shen and Prolog recently, but nothing serious. Been dabbling back in Factor land again. [22:17:39] i still want to do a impl of shen on factor but i've been getting migranes lately [22:19:52] doublec: https://groups.google.com/g/qilang/c/MjHrwpaz28I/m/i0xVtU1hCQAJ [22:21:20] nifty [22:21:29] bitmapper: did you solve your locals problem? [22:21:38] no [22:21:43] but that message gave me an idea [23:19:22] * neuro_sys [neuro_sys!~neuro_sys@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). [23:19:58] * neuro_sys [neuro_sys!~neuro_sys@unaffiliated/neurosys/x-283974] has joined the channel.