[00:14:16] * ColonelJ [ColonelJ!~ColonelJ@unaffiliated/colonelj] has quit (Quit: leaving). [00:39:44] * mwgkgk [mwgkgk!uid243904@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vouwtheglhluhivy] has joined the channel. [01:20:17] bmp: I know what you mean. [02:39:47] * MrMobius [MrMobius!~MrMobius@208.58.206.154] has joined the channel. [02:58:53] * mwgkgk [mwgkgk!uid243904@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vouwtheglhluhivy] has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). [04:39:38] * Sgeo [Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). [04:56:05] * MDude [MDude!~MDude@74.5.140.76] has quit (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)). [05:06:44] * popr [popr!~popr-bot@2001:19f0:ac01:1008:f50f:3002:b916:d991] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). [05:07:52] * popr [popr!~popr-bot@2001:19f0:ac01:1008:4c8b:ee04:9b59:7856] has joined the channel. [05:21:59] * Sgeo [Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net] has joined the channel. [05:34:05] * shynoob [shynoob!75d00629@117.208.6.41] has joined the channel. [05:34:18] hi I am new here.. are there any game devs here? [05:37:01] * Sgeo [Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net] has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). [05:37:45] shynoob: I tried to make a 3D game engine once. [05:37:58] wow, why did you stop? [05:38:18] also what do you suggest? [05:38:21] * Sgeo [Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net] has joined the channel. [05:38:40] It was too slow, and I didn't see a good way to make it faster at the time. [05:39:26] ohh [05:39:47] do you recommend factor for making games or game engines at all now? [05:40:03] I wanted an engine where the models were generated, and fully deformable so you could e.g. shatter things or punch holes through them. [05:40:26] This was with Haskell/GHC. [05:40:34] that reminds me of Red Faction 1 [05:40:51] ohh [05:41:40] so now you have moved to Factor for a reason? [05:41:48] I figured that I couldn't create all the assets myself, but maybe I could generate them as needed, and avoid the need for many gigabytes of storage. [05:42:33] No, I made my own concatenative language, Popr. [05:43:31] wew ppl been creating languages after languages [05:43:56] popr: IO "Say 'hi'\n" write_std [05:43:56] Say 'hi' [05:43:56] IO [05:44:27] I've been at it for a while. [05:44:47] oh wew hi popr: [05:49:30] nah.. I suppose C is the only language I should stick with for directx stuff [05:49:33] :( [05:56:50] * popr [popr!~popr-bot@2001:19f0:ac01:1008:4c8b:ee04:9b59:7856] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). [05:57:17] * popr [popr!~popr-bot@2001:19f0:ac01:1008:4c8b:ee04:9b59:7856] has joined the channel. [06:33:54] * ephe_meral [ephe_meral!~amnesia@ip5f5bf7d1.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined the channel. [06:36:44] * shynoob [shynoob!75d00629@117.208.6.41] has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 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[12:32:07] * popr [popr!~popr-bot@2001:19f0:ac01:1008:4c8b:ee04:9b59:7856] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). [12:32:27] * popr [popr!~popr-bot@2001:19f0:ac01:1008:4527:ee09:ef45:e329] has joined the channel. [12:35:01] * ephe_meral [ephe_meral!~amnesia@ip5f5bf7d1.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). [13:15:40] * popr [popr!~popr-bot@2001:19f0:ac01:1008:4527:ee09:ef45:e329] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). [13:15:59] * popr [popr!~popr-bot@2001:19f0:ac01:1008:4527:ee09:ef45:e329] has joined the channel. [13:46:10] * mjl [mjl!sid16781@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bsaorcixyjgeymwl] has quit. [13:46:27] * mjl [mjl!sid16781@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wkbtsmmayqwcipxf] has joined the channel. [14:08:17] * earl [earl!~earl@pdpc/supporter/active/earl] has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). [14:19:43] * earl [earl!~earl@pdpc/supporter/active/earl] has joined the channel. [14:25:17] * ephe_meral [ephe_meral!~amnesia@ip-109-41-0-115.web.vodafone.de] has joined the channel. [14:51:39] * ephe_meral [ephe_meral!~amnesia@ip-109-41-0-115.web.vodafone.de] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). [15:23:25] * bmp [bmp!sid22344@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xofulnenrncpewbp] has quit. [15:23:40] * bmp [bmp!sid22344@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wmuekzdbgmedmeeb] has joined the channel. [15:25:59] * mwgkgk [mwgkgk!uid243904@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dzdhpmxnrwdnrrow] has joined the channel. [15:29:58] hey people. I was wondering if there's a story behind the recommended 64 characters per line Factor coding style, both mentioned on wiki and also rather assertively enforced from the vim plugin [15:51:32] <^alex> as we understand it, that comes from historical Forth `block` sizes [15:55:21] * ephe_meral [ephe_meral!~amnesia@ip-109-41-0-115.web.vodafone.de] has joined the channel. [15:56:08] right, makes sense, i vaguely understand that it used "pages" in a rather literal sense [15:56:24] and so the page width would also be important [15:59:18] it is both tempting to break the heck out this recommendation, but also, it seems important for enforcing good factoring discipline [16:03:07] <^alex> for personal code we break the heck out of the recommendation when we feel like it [16:03:16] <^alex> but also we tend not to feel like it [16:03:53] kinda like named locals [16:04:10] <^alex> right [16:06:25] <^alex> ...and yeah, see, checking for lines longer than 64 characters in our personal code and the _bulk_ of it are `USING:` lines [16:06:36] <^alex> and CONSTANT: [16:07:30] i run into problems with stack effect comments, trying to make descriptive names for inputs and outputs [16:08:07] * ephe_meral [ephe_meral!~amnesia@ip-109-41-0-115.web.vodafone.de] has quit (Remote host closed the connection). [16:08:11] which is probably solved by wrapping them into a data structure or, better, splitting this thing [16:08:22] <^alex> we try and keep the effect comments short, and load the name of the word itself such that the meaning is carried there [16:10:33] <^alex> https://docs.factorcode.org/content/article-effects.html is where we started [16:11:32] <^alex> but that's a loose guide, not a set of hard-and-fast rules [16:15:31] it's leaning on using types rather than names of what a thing means. makes sense for describing the more complex ones [16:16:32] so `( rc-path -run= boot-img-path output-img-path -- ? )` would be more like `(path str path path -- ?)` [16:17:30] though, like you said, not a hard-and-fast rule [16:19:29] <^alex> oh, yeah, that's time for a tuple [16:19:31] <^alex> imo [16:20:20] <^alex> `: is-image-deployable ( deployment -- ? )` [16:20:48] <^alex> (making some assumptions here about what you're doing based on your names) [16:21:12] yas, it's not exactly that, but using tuples for meaning makes a lot of sense [16:22:02] <^alex> good luck :) [16:22:32] thanks :) there's a lot to learn [16:22:50] <^alex> Earth is full of things [16:22:58] <^alex> so, too, is the Factor stdlib [16:26:47] i see. i'm skipping way ahead, and that's the reason for.. uninidiomatic.. thinking. one thing lead to the other, to finish andreaferretti's tutor, need to set vocab-roots, wanted to bake an rc in so that the image starts faster, and i have a bunch of things to add like editors.vim config [16:27:54] unidiomatic * jesus i messed that up [16:28:18] <^alex> this is one of the things we like about factor [16:29:28] <^alex> with practice it gets easier to go from "oh huh i have this big mess of unfactored code that does what i want" to "i have a reasonably-well-factored data flow description of my task" [16:33:33] indeed. i wasn't even coming here to change the way i think about programming. but alas [16:55:59] <^alex> i feel like if a new language doesn't help you do that at least a little bit, you might be missing something in the experience [16:57:14] <^alex> but we're the kind of person who will write semi-idiomatic Python with a heavy OCaml accent at work [16:58:44] <^alex> multiply nested `def`s, constructing dictionaries keyed by tuple, whose values are functions, things that could be `match` statements if python had those historically [17:21:21] * ephe_meral [ephe_meral!~amnesia@ip5f5bf7d1.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined the channel. [17:44:50] popr: 1 A + 2 + [17:44:50] 04error:99 _1 A +_ 2 _+_ [17:45:09] I got basic error reporting working ^ [17:45:49] The errors are underlined. [17:46:49] * Sgeo [Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18b982ad.dyn.optonline.net] has joined the channel. [19:06:47] * nikki93 [nikki93!sid200244@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-guvdbpebdgbeiipj] has quit. [19:07:01] * nikki93 [nikki93!sid200244@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eqetqyfigbgjqnkb] has joined the channel. [19:11:48] * pointfree [pointfree!sid204397@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-udfawixqriyicqwr] has quit. [19:12:28] * pointfree [pointfree!sid204397@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ndfifzkkbzniciwo] has joined the channel. [20:01:17] * MDude [MDude!~MDude@74.5.140.76] has joined the channel. [20:05:17] * duncanm [duncanm!sid287146@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rtkylcpjkuwhzgtp] has quit. [20:05:32] * duncanm [duncanm!sid287146@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zxhhndiyftgufgil] has joined the channel. 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